Kimberly Spencer (00:00:00) - Hello. Hello, my fellow sovereigns, and welcome back to another episode of the Crown Yourself podcast. Get ready to, as my mentor Brendan Bouchard says, bring joy because we are going to have a joyful business revolution with the queen of organic marketing. And if you're thinking like organic marketing, that just does not sound joyful at all. Then stay tuned because I am bringing you Shannon Hernandez. She and I met through the dames. She has grown her business to nearly $1 million in annual revenue from organic marketing alone. So it is possible. It is magical and it helps when you have joy. And it's not just an emotion and it's not happiness. Joy is a vibration and it's an incredibly high vibration. And like I said, in my commitment to the next 200 episodes, I am going to be bringing you content and and people and amazing guests who are going to elevate your vibration to a whole new standard. And that includes the vibration of your business. And as we know, because of the law of vibration, if you haven't downloaded my How to Get Anything You Want guide, the law of vibration is in there and the law of vibration is that everything is vibration.
Kimberly Spencer (00:01:35) - Money is a vibration, joy is a vibration. And if you want more money and more energy flowing into your business, then eliminate those lower vibrational aspects of the business of guilt and shame.
Kimberly Spencer (00:01:49) - And the bad.
Kimberly Spencer (00:01:50) - Going through that and turning into having it be more joy. Well, that is Shannon's specialty. She brings a joyful business revolution and has experienced a level of joy that also comes from having what we talked about with my friend Jan in my friend Jan's podcast several months ago about the deep end of joy, about grief. And so we're not just talking fluff and fairies and rainbows and all this magical shit like that's great. And there's also the level of the experience of grief and transformation. And I found Shannon's book. Shannon recommended it to me at a time when I was in a space of deep grief. Her book, Practical Joy, was a workbook of a revelation for me that allowed me to remember the aspects of my soul that I had allowed myself to forget inside of my chrysalis of grief that I was struggling in working through that book, which I'm going to link to in the description that I found a whole new level of joy and gratitude.
Kimberly Spencer (00:03:09) - And I could not be more grateful that Shannon is on this podcast and that now she is going to get on Survivor. Yes. Really? Oh, yes? Because that is something that brings her joy. And so we are going to dive into all the things that bring joy out, joy in your business, and how to apply that to your life as well. So with that, I give you M Shannon Hernandez. Welcome to the Crown Yourself podcast, where together we build your empire and transform your subconscious stories about what's possible for your business, body, and life. I'm your host, Kimberly Spencer, founder of Crown Yourself, and I'm a master mindset coach, best-selling author, and TEDx speaker, known to my clients as a game changer. Each week you get the conscious leadership strategies you need to help you reign with courage, clarity, and confidence so that you too can make the income and impact you deserve. Imagine this podcast as your royal invitation to step into your full potential and reign in your divine purpose.
Kimberly Spencer (00:04:23) - Your sovereignty starts here and your reign is now. Shannon, welcome to the Crown Yourself podcast. Am so honored to have you here. It has just been so beautiful watching your journey and being connected to you through the games and seeing you grow and your business flourish and now you've come out with practical joy. That saved me in a very, very challenging time because I mean, gosh, you recommended that book. And this is why I always say like promote your stuff. Like you just and it's a it makes sense. You're a marketing strategist but you just easily so easily were just like, here's my book, it might help. And I was like, I'm buying that. Yeah. What inspired you to dive in and write Practical Joy?
Shannon Hernandez (00:05:15) - It's such a beautiful question. So practical Joy was inspired because there were many times in my own life when I was looking for, I will call it seeking joy, but what I learned through the process and through the things that I teach myself and my clients through the marketing work is joy is an inside job, and happiness is those things that we seek on the outside of us.
Shannon Hernandez (00:05:40) - And I think we've all grown up in a kind of environment that has not tapped into how to find your joy. But we're like constantly like going for the promotion, going for the next big thing, going on vacation, like waiting till a happy hour or whatever, right? Like at the end of the week. And those are all happy things, but they aren't like the internal lasting joy. And so I was really curious for several years about how could I find more joy in my life and my business. And practical joy was born from that space.
Kimberly Spencer (00:06:16) - I think you touched on such an interesting point around happiness versus joy because it reminds me of a queer episode that I was watching. I love that show and in it, I think it was said something to the extent of like you're tapping into like American happiness of like just put the smile on and go about your day. And I mean, that was where I was when I shared that very vulnerable post Inside the Dames about like I was feeling so challenged, I was feeling like I should be grateful.
Kimberly Spencer (00:06:49) - I mean, I should have a big freaking glowing smile. I just manifested my dream home, got to move with my family, and suddenly, like, I had this overwhelming amount of grief and holy fucking ness of like, Oh my gosh. Now I realized I had a fear of like, Oh my gosh, keeping it and like, making sure that it was sustainable because that and that's a belief system that's done from childhood. Know exactly where that one came from. But when you're dealing with grief like joyful things there are things that you grieve because that was just what you knew. How do you navigate to finding joy and cultivating joy when you're coming from that place?
Shannon Hernandez (00:07:36) - Yeah, well, I always like to say I know extreme joy because I know extreme grief and think if people can keep that in perspective, that just because, you know, I promote joyful business and I promote joy fueled marketing and I promote like practical joy and people living their joy fueled lives.
Shannon Hernandez (00:07:56) - I'm not a fucking unicorn, and neither are you. And it. Dang it. Sorry.
Kimberly Spencer (00:08:04) - Wait, are you saying I'm human?
Shannon Hernandez (00:08:06) - You are human. Oh, man. You're a beautiful human, but you're human. And we're going to. Yeah, we're going to have these moments, right, of grief and joy and everything in between. Because I think those are maybe the two extremes. Like if we drew a line grief on one end, like, Oh, God, grief, right? Like, here it is again. I call it sneaky grief. And then we've got the joy. It's like, oh, it just feels good. Like I'm in my joy today. And I think, you know, Kimberly, as I reflected as I was writing this book, I think I've been searching or wanting to have more joy, not searching for it, but wanting to have more joy since a very young age. And that probably doesn't surprise anyone, right? I grew up in a house with four children.
Shannon Hernandez (00:08:58) - I was the third. Right? Was kind of like shoved in there in the middle somewhere. And my parents worked a lot. They worked very hard and they worked shift work, right? So my dad was a police officer. And anyway, it was just kind of a weird, weird thing for me because, you know, we'd get home from school and I'd be ready to play and he'd be on like 11 to 7 or whatever, and be sleeping, right? And then you come home in the summer and you'd be ready to go. And now he was back on midnights. And it was just kind of this, this thing that. I was always like, wondering what it would be like to, like, have like be able to playfully and not have to worry about my dad. Sleeping like this is just one very small example. And you know, I was raised as an extrovert and a lot of people love to tell me, you must be an extrovert. But I'm not. I'm a big introvert.
Shannon Hernandez (00:09:47) - And that wasn't like, yeah, that wasn't like accepted in my family. We were pushed to go to sleepovers to be social and not sit in our room and read a book all day. Like you got to like, come out and be with the family and watch TV. And so there were all these things that I kept coming up against. And over the years, right, Fast forward 40 years, I did learn what brought me joy after I quit chasing happiness. But there were still and there are still and there will be many more lots of moments of grief, admits the joy. And I think the reason practical joy is so important is because we're not unicorns and we're going to keep having griefs and loss and change and evolution, even if it's what we've asked for. Right? Like you, you shared a beautiful story, like you manifest this house and then you were like, Oh shit, what is this? Why am I not happy? And coming back to practical joy, the joy that matters to each one of us, I think is one of the most courageous things that we can do in the world today.
Kimberly Spencer (00:11:03) - Mm. I completely agree. And I think that sometimes there's even that joy in the fun of the challenge, like the fun of the challenge of going for something that you want people maybe say probably won't happen, and yet you're still like, I think I'm going to go for this and that Joy. I think it's got a lot. It's been convoluted with hustle culture. So for those who do genuinely like that, that was where I had to find like, Oh, I love the challenge of a challenge. Like I gave natural childbirth like twice because I was like, Let's try it like. So that experience of being like, I love a good physical challenge. I love like, I love going for a cultivated conscious challenge. And it was in that lack of the challenge that I found, Oh my gosh, I've manifested this and now what's my next challenge? Like, what's the next thing that I'm going to find that's going to bring me that joy of going for something bigger than most people think is possible? And yet you still happen to do it? Yeah.
Shannon Hernandez (00:12:21) - Yeah.
Kimberly Spencer (00:12:22) - So when you've I mean, you've had several experiences of that transformation of grief. Can you tell me about a time that you just really struggled or were challenged to source your joy?
Shannon Hernandez (00:12:39) - Yeah, I would say the biggest one and the most recent one is my spouse has transitioned to a woman and we've been married 13 years and the first nine for a husband, last four for a wife. So it's been a big challenge on so many levels. And, you know, this is the dichotomy, I think, of grief and joy and how you can be so joyful for somebody because they're living how they want to live and they've blossomed and they feel like this new person that they've always wanted to be. And. I was grieving. And she was grieving, too. Like she had to grieve 40 years of not being that. And I had to grieve the marriage transition. And with that came family who walked away came, you know, friendships changed. Like who am I as a person? How does this impact my identity and my sexuality? Like we're not through it yet.
Shannon Hernandez (00:13:42) - I'm not through yet. Maria's feeling really good about who she is now, and I'm so happy for her. And it's like such a beautiful thing to see that you can be in total joy for something. And the grief also has space there as well. And that's just been a big transition and we're super committed to our relationship and super committed to each person living out their most joyful life and doing good in the world. And that's what I hold on to at the end of each day.
Kimberly Spencer (00:14:19) - When did you decide to make that level of commitment to your joy?
Shannon Hernandez (00:14:25) - Well, I had to put a lot of armor on. Which was hard because I'm not somebody that wears armor. As you know, I'm pretty transparent and I'm just real right? Like, that's how I've always been. But I knew when we announced this or kind of shared this with my family, that it was going to not go well and it didn't go well. And I knew that and I intuitively knew that. And I just knew like that.
Shannon Hernandez (00:14:52) - You know, I'm the only person that kind of like swayed from the super conservative Christian right side of my family. So I had to put a lot of armor on. And it was during that time that the act didn't feel joyful. I knew I had to protect what I wanted most, which was to stay in this marriage and help my spouse transition. And that was a big knowing of coming back into my inner joy. And what is it that brings me joy? And it's the little things, y'all. It's the morning cup of coffee while I drink coffee. Why meditate? I probably shouldn't do that, but I do.
Kimberly Spencer (00:15:35) - It's kind of like a moving meditation to just like, sip. And it's the repetitive motion.
Shannon Hernandez (00:15:42) - Side note For years. Years. 40. How old am I? 46. 45 years. I told myself I couldn't meditate. I try. I can't meditate. Carmen. I am now on a day like 200 and something of guided meditation. I needed a different kind of meditation.
Shannon Hernandez (00:16:00) - And part of this was why I wrote this book because you've got a lot of people saying, Just sit still, Just be grateful. Just meditate. Just be present. I was doing all those things and I still didn't have the level of joy that I wanted.
Kimberly Spencer (00:16:11) - So gosh, yes, I completely agree. I used to hear that and I would be like and just fuck off for real. For real, like that. That was when people were like, Oh, you need to meditate. I might. Running was my meditation. That was what got me through my divorce. And when I was 23, like that was that was my meditation. That was movement. That was something propelling me forward. But after a while that didn't work. And I found in 2019, I found transcendental meditation. Since then, that's been my jam. Yeah. So I get being on that meditation journey and finding what it is that works for you. Is there an app or what kind of guidance do you get?
Shannon Hernandez (00:16:57) - I use the app called Insight Timer and I have curated playlists over the last 200 days of my favorite people.
Shannon Hernandez (00:17:06) - And yeah, it's just ten minutes, you know, in the morning it's quiet. It's time for me to maybe spark something. I have my journal in case I want to write something down. I have my little cup of coffee and that to me is joy. And when I travel, even Kimberly, that app, my journal, and that cup of coffee, it is like a ritual now, which is one of the things I talk about in the book, right? Your joy is a practice. It is like getting on that yoga mat every day or doing that meditation. Like you've got to consciously choose every day that you are going to choose your joy. And it can be a five-minute thing. It can be a 20-minute thing, it can be an hour-long run. You can mix those up. But that is, I think, where a lot of people are searching for happiness things instead of grounding into themselves, being super present with what they need at the moment, and honoring that without the guilt, without the shame, without I need to go do mine to-do list, you know, all the things that get into our way and like, creep into our joy.
Kimberly Spencer (00:18:11) - Joy. Amen. Their joy creeps in. They just like, they're just. And they're insidious because sometimes they are very valid excuses. Like, I have two beautiful, lovely excuses to divert who bring me heaps of joy. And there are some other things that I'm like, Mama, Mom, I need to go do an exercise class or a dance class or something different, that allows me to have something that is just for me. And that was really what your book taught me was, Oh my gosh, there are certain things that I have denied, like for the sake of business and for the sake of motherhood, which are two very you know, they take up some time, but being able to look at, okay, what, what have I, what have I want to do? Like just for me. And so I joined, I started doing choreography, class choreography, dance class, not every week, but a couple of times a month. That's just fun and it's sexy.
Kimberly Spencer (00:19:13) - And then I joined a book club where we meet at local wineries and just read a really good fiction murder mystery because there is just I have such a heart and a love for really good fiction, like a twister that just surprises. Are you with hooks? So what are those things that you have? Your coffee, You have your ritual. What rituals have you adopted in your business to bring you joy?
Shannon Hernandez (00:19:39) - Oh gosh, I could teach a whole Well, my whole program is called Joy Fueled, right? Yes. So it's such a beautiful, beautiful question. So, you know, the very first thing, whether it's business or non-business, it doesn't matter. Our joy comes from honoring our lifestyle values. And this is why I always say, like your flavor of joy, Kimberly may be very different than my flavor of joy. And the reason why is because we value different things. And even as we grow and evolve, our values change. I'm not talking about integrity and honesty. I'm talking about things like my highest value right now is health and wellness, right? So any time that I can steal 30 minutes outside and walk or run or work out with my trainer like I did this morning, that just feeds my joy.
Shannon Hernandez (00:20:30) - That is my highest lifestyle value. My second highest lifestyle value is spaciousness in my calendar. And so in my business, what that looks like is, you know, I work three and a half days a week. I work generally from 11 to 2, 10 to 2, somewhere in there. And then I'm out. I'm going to the pool. I'm going on a walk. I'm right about reading fiction, right? Like fiction is such a huge part. But I have that spaciousness in my business calendar. The other thing is, my joy comes in for my legion and my joy comes in for how I deliver my programs. And for many, many years I had a full 12 to 15, one-on-one marketing strategy clients, right? That was a lot. It was a lot to carry. You know marketing and business come with everyone stopping all around and I've cut that back significantly but I've gone onto the teaching of the marketing and the group of programs because as a former teacher, I love teaching.
Shannon Hernandez (00:21:37) - It is where I light up. It is where people catch on fire, as I like to say in their marketing catches on fire and their business catches on fire in the best way. So thinking about your joy in terms of business, how your day is set up, and whether your business honoring your lifestyle values? Is your marketing joy fueled? Right. We call it joy-fueled marketing. Are you delivering your programs or your offers in a way that brings you the maximum joy? These are like how you get that business that you love.
Kimberly Spencer (00:22:11) - Can you give me some examples of joy-fueled marketing? Because for so many business owners that is a paradox. But before you do, I know that you very nearly hit even just working three days a week like you are almost $1 million business a year. And so for all of y'all listening like the amount, how much do you delegate in your business to create that spaciousness and then give some examples of joy field marketing.
Shannon Hernandez (00:22:45) - Yes. Okay. So this is two separate questions.
Shannon Hernandez (00:22:49) - I'm going to tackle it one and then the other. Kimberly, I have been called in the last six months the queen of organic marketing, and I am taking it on it's appearing in my newsletters and my social media starting today. Yes, Queen, I was so nervous to do that because I don't know, like I was like, Oh, what are people going to think if I call myself? But I'm like, I didn't call myself that. Like, people started calling me that I'm going to take on like, what they said, right? And like totally embody it. So yes, we have nearly $1 million a year in business, all organic marketing. It's what I specialize in. And the Joy Fuel marketing piece. I'm going to talk about that piece first for myself and our clients if they are 100% in alignment with how they're naturally not how we force you, but how you naturally deliver your content. And I created a tool years ago called the Content Personality Wheel, and we've helped thousands and thousands of coaches, consultants, and service-based business owners around the globe.
Shannon Hernandez (00:23:53) - Take the quiz. It takes three minutes. Figure out what is your dominant marketing content personality out of five. And then guess what? You get to put your blinders on and you get to ignore all the other advice. You get to ignore all the other platforms. You get to ignore everything and we just dial in and get that one thing working for you. And that right there is joy in and of itself. If you do nothing more than that, that is the essence of joy-fueled marketing. So that's like the marketing side. And then the team side. There was a time that. I had a much larger team than I have now, and that was not joyful to me. Honestly, I kind of went down the route of pain and opium online business manager and what I realized is I can manage stuff fast and I'm efficient. I know Asana in and out. And I took that back, Right? I took that back two years ago. I tried to bring a copywriter into this brand.
Shannon Hernandez (00:24:53) - We tested. We vetted, and We did all the things. I'm back to writing my marketing copy. You are your best marketer, y'all.
Kimberly Spencer (00:25:03) - Amen. I yeah, we hired a copywriter last year, and I just recently was like, Yeah, that's not. Yep. I love writing. Like, I love writing. And so I know you do too. And I love your copy. And it's just it literally, it just sparkles of you.
Shannon Hernandez (00:25:23) - Yeah. And I did a lot of training with the person and she did a good job. But guess what? I just needed to simplify to me. You know, sacred simplicity has been something that I try to remember. How can I simplify this more? How can I keep it more sacred? How can I keep it, you know, more present and closer not to my heart, but closer to the vision without, like, all the creep, right? Like I was paying an OBM. I was paying a copywriter, whatever. The point is, now I have a lean team.
Shannon Hernandez (00:25:59) - We all are aligned with the joy. We all are aligned with what we're bringing to the people. And my team is a client care virtual assistant because I don't want to answer all those emails coming in.
Kimberly Spencer (00:26:13) - Yeah, yeah.
Shannon Hernandez (00:26:14) - Get a password and whatever. Okay. All of that. She handles that. I have a tech VA who does all the website stuff. He's amazing. He's our tech wizard. And then three years ago I delegated sales and that was probably the thing that has made the biggest difference in this brand I am showing up for things like this biz development relationship building outside of sales, right? Doing lead gen writing, my content. That's it. The email goes out, the people read it, they sign up, and we keep it going. This is simple and it's sacred. And Amy handles all the sales on the team. And there was a transition there a few years ago and it was hard. Kimberly Because if you've ever tried to hand yourself off to somebody, it's a gut check, right?
Kimberly Spencer (00:27:06) - In the process of doing that for our agency now.
Kimberly Spencer (00:27:09) - And I'm like, Oh yeah, Mamas Come Mamas got a lot to learn and a lot more processes like Extract from my brain of like how I've done it successfully. Yes. So you learn fast where you're lacking in processes.
Shannon Hernandez (00:27:24) - Absolutely. And how much we hold in our heads. Right? Yeah. So, my salesperson, she's amazing. She does reach out before workshops. She does content personality chats like she is a true community builder and relationship builder. And I trained her in how we do sales here, which is soulful, selling. Selling, right? No, like pushing? No getting people to sign up on the spot. None of that shit. Because it ain't joyful.
Kimberly Spencer (00:27:52) - It's not joyful. I don't pull that bullshit either. It's just like, Yeah. And I think the question with that is that I get so often is how do you establish urgency with soul? Mm. Because urgency and deadlines are a part of sales. And what does that look like for you and your business?
Shannon Hernandez (00:28:18) - This is a journey.
Shannon Hernandez (00:28:19) - This has been a journey. So I've been in business for 12.5 years. So I came into the business when it was do the launches, do the count down timers. I didn't do my first ever. They didn't feel good to me. To do the launches you must sign up within 24 hours. And I have had to unravel all of that. And you know what was interesting? I thought, this is crazy. I'm going to go backward and not make nearly the amount of money, but look what happened.
Kimberly Spencer (00:28:50) - Yeah, Yeah, right.
Shannon Hernandez (00:28:52) - So we went on this beautiful journey a few years ago and it took our brand from 200 and some thousand up to like 600 in that year. That's that's a lot of growth in a year. That was also the year I got rid of everyone. And so we just dialed it in right so super profitable on the other side of it, right like 40% profit margin which is unheard of. Right. And yeah. So the number one thing I had to do and I had to do a lot of mindset work around this and a lot of like, this is my intuitive knowing and I'm tapping into it.
Shannon Hernandez (00:29:29) - I don't care how crazy it sounds to me or anyone else like my brain can go take a hike. I am doing what's in my heart and my soul. And we transitioned every single program that we run from a launch model to what we call an open everyday model. And we got rid of the scarcity and we got rid of the urgency. And we just believe that people will make the best choice when it's right for them. We don't have to incentivize or make incentives for people. We don't run discounts. We don't run specials. But I think you can do that when your marketing is working for you and new people are coming in all the time, right? And the level of our clientele went up, their results went up, and Our strength went down like it was just a happy, happy place. And I'm proud of that. And it took a lot of inner coaching. Say, I'm not going to ruin things. You can always go back if you have to and you can.
Shannon Hernandez (00:30:29) - I think that's important to remember. You make any shifts in your business doesn't have to be forever and you can always go back and regroup or retrace your steps and that, you know, that's part of the joy field marketing is are you willing to go into the marketing lab with me, mix them shit up, blow some shit up and see what happens, We'll get some results and we'll come back and do it again. And that has been the journey from not needing urgency and not being in launch mode to opening every day. And. Having an audience who's coming in consistently and saying, Yes, I want joy-fueled marketing. I want the joy in my business as you have. Mhm.
Kimberly Spencer (00:31:10) - I love that because and it's so resonated because just this past week I blew up our CRM, blew it up seven years of funnels, seven years of funnels and things. And because I looked at what was bringing in the income for our coaching business and I was like, it's, it's one-on-one high touch personal coaching and I love that.
Kimberly Spencer (00:31:36) - I didn't love doing like, Here's a course over here, and here's a small course over here. And I just that was a model that just didn't fill my heart with love. And I'm like, I just prefer to be like up in someone's business for a time and like, really get in and dive deep and then see them transform. And then they get to go up. Like, I don't believe in codependent coaching because I'm like, Let's work together and then go forth and conquer. And I do believe that people really, they have an internal sense of urgency where they know where it's like, this is my time right now to lean in and to do this and. I trust that people are tapped in, at least the people that I work with and I'm sure that you are working with as well, that they are tapped into their intuition to a degree that they know that they're not ignoring those nudges.
Shannon Hernandez (00:32:31) - Yeah. You know, I love this is my God, you and I just need to like, jam out some time on soulful marketing.
Kimberly Spencer (00:32:42) - Solutely.
Shannon Hernandez (00:32:43) - Because I got this email this weekend, you know when you're like, you get on some of these lists and you're driving with what they say and then as the fourth email comes, and then you're like, What the actual fuck? Like, this is what happened to me. So I'm I don't know what I was doing, but I was looking at it on my phone and the subject line read How to keep your clients for 4 to 6 years. And I thought, what in the actual fuck if my clients have to stay with me that long, I have not done my job. And he's teaching this how to prolong it. And listen, I unsubscribed, but I have heard this before, and I know. I want to say I sort of think I know it happens that people are coached not to give it all to just a little little little. So you renew a little. A little, little. So you renew. And I am so happy that you said I don't want codependency clients.
Shannon Hernandez (00:33:43) - Like that's not what I'm in this for. We're going to give you your wings, help you fly out of the nest a few times, and then you're gone. You're soaring.
Kimberly Spencer (00:33:51) - You're doing it.
Kimberly Spencer (00:33:52) - I mean, and I've found that my clients typically will come back 6 or 9 months after they've stabilized at the level that they've got to, and then they're ready to take off and transform again. Because when they have that next goal, that next dream, that requires a level of transformation. But it's not this consistent. Like, let me just work with you just a little bit. Put Band-Aids on these gangrenous wounds, not go deep. And I just think that's absolute bullshit. And I think if you are doing that, you are doing a radical disservice to your clients like that, I think. And I think it's manipulative and codependent and I got lots of opinions about it. I said I wasn't going to get that spicy, but sheesh.
Shannon Hernandez (00:34:38) - Well, you know, bring out the spicy in people.
Kimberly Spencer (00:34:40) - Yes, you do. You do.
Kimberly Spencer (00:34:43) - Because Like what? I mean, I think that there is such an industry shift in the coaching industry that needs to happen, that is toward joy, because that's ultimately what everybody is seeking when they are done running away from what they fear.
Shannon Hernandez (00:35:03) - Yep. Well, I want to ask you a question because I. I love this. I've been wanting to teach a class for years called the Funnels. But a friend I know, I saw his Facebook post owns the domain, so I.
Kimberly Spencer (00:35:18) - Need to know.
Shannon Hernandez (00:35:19) - And like, I know. Can you believe it? One day I was like, I wonder if the funnel is actually, like valid. And then I went there and somebody bought it. And then two years later I saw my friend Adam and he posted I own this domain and I don't know what to do with it.
Kimberly Spencer (00:35:35) - To.
Shannon Hernandez (00:35:35) - Like meet up. Now, it.
Kimberly Spencer (00:35:37) - Is true.
Shannon Hernandez (00:35:38) - That everyone, you know, we all have a funnel of some sort.
Shannon Hernandez (00:35:42) - I call it a pipeline. I just think the way that you know, Kimberly is so key because you said just a little bit ago you ripped apart your CRM and got rid of the funnels.
Kimberly Spencer (00:35:56) - Yeah.
Shannon Hernandez (00:35:57) - And I'm proud of you for that. And I'm going to tell you why. When we started in business, that was the model. Throw everyone in. They sift their way down and then they buy it. People are smart these days. They're way more savvy and sophisticated. And if you think of this as a pipeline or maybe a spider web, right? If you think about it, people are coming in and all different areas. They're smarter, they're savvier, they're more educated. They know the funnel from a funnel. So can we just not do that? Yeah.
Kimberly Spencer (00:36:31) - Yeah.
Shannon Hernandez (00:36:32) - Or re-envision it. This is why my business is called Joyful Business Revolution. Let's revolutionize that shit and make it something that works and feels good for everyone.
Kimberly Spencer (00:36:44) - Oh, I love that. And fuck the finals.
Kimberly Spencer (00:36:48) - Oh, so juicy. So good. Like, I just think of domains like that as delicious internet real estate. After I was bought out of my e-commerce company, I felt like, very spicy and like, a badass. And. And so I got. How to Swing Your Business. Dick. I cannot tell you how many calls from India I got to buy that domain.
Kimberly Spencer (00:37:10) - Do you still have it? I finally sold it. Swing your business, dick.com.
Shannon Hernandez (00:37:17) - The e-commerce word world is growing heavy.
Kimberly Spencer (00:37:20) - It was very it was very bro heavy. It was I mean you know just being partnered with a man and then having a whole bunch of male lawyers tell me how incompetent and young and uneducated I was to get my price down. Like that was a fun three months.
Shannon Hernandez (00:37:35) - Yeah, we call that not joy.
Kimberly Spencer (00:37:37) - Not joy. Yeah, that was not joyful. Fortunately, though, I think after I like to circle back to the point on grief, it's like once that died, that was when I built my coaching business.
Kimberly Spencer (00:37:48) - Yeah. But I had to have the freedom from that to build a values-based business. So when you are cultivating joy and bringing out the individuation, like obviously it's coming from who they are at their soul. Yeah, but what are some examples? I know my audience loves details and possibilities because sometimes we don't even think of like, I didn't even know that was an option. And sometimes just hearing what other people are doing can permit the possibility. Not saying that that's something you need to adopt but to spark the ideas of creation of what could bring joy to your marketing.
Shannon Hernandez (00:38:26) - Absolutely. So, oh my God, we've got thousands of ideas, right? So I'm like, let me pull one out. I'll talk about a nap for a minute. Um, and I have many others, but she came to us after, so she's a functional nurse, functional doctor, and medicine. And she came to us after, um, going through another program where they convinced her the only way to market was with ads and it was fine.
Shannon Hernandez (00:38:56) - But here's when she came to us at this pivotal moment, I had given up how to fall in love with marketing again in another group. And she was on that Zoom webinar. And she reached out and she said, I, I can't do this anymore. I either have to figure out a different way to market that aligns with my joy who I am and my expertise or I just am going to close this down. And so we met with her and we first of all, everyone relationships, belly to belly relationships, get someone on Zoom, look in their eyeballs, and build a damn relationship.
Kimberly Spencer (00:39:33) - Belly to belly, right?
Shannon Hernandez (00:39:34) - Ask the questions, Listen. Do your job as a human. All right? So she says, I am getting leads, but they're not qualified leads. And there's hundreds and hundreds, like six and seven and eight, 900 people signing up for my webinars and two are coming. And I was so sad for her, Kimberly, because this was like her first experience of what it was going to be like and she was spending a lot of money on that, right? But more than the money, she was deflated, like her confidence was deflated and it was gone.
Shannon Hernandez (00:40:07) - And so we talked with her. She took the content personality quiz. She is not live in person or video, which is great for doing Zoom trainings and webinars. She has a written content personality. Right. So she got out of that program. She came over, she signed on with us. We started teaching her how to write content that references what she loves, like very value-forward. Don't hold back. Give it your all. The more you share with people, the more they're going to be like, that chick knows her shit. I'm reaching out to figure out how I can work with this person. We taught her how to write these types of organic content, send it to her newsletter, and post it. Her platform of choice is Facebook. She had a turnaround within six months in her business and she had new clients coming in. Her joy was back. She wasn't trying to teach and deliver and do all these things, and she didn't have ads running.
Shannon Hernandez (00:41:06) - She got to show up exactly as she was. And now she's writing for magazines and people are reaching out to her and saying, hey, I want to teach with you, or will you come into my community? And she's doing strategic partnerships like that. So that's just one example of what's possible. When you do say what am doing is not working or is not working and is not bringing me joy and I'm going to choose something else, even if it feels scary.
Kimberly Spencer (00:41:35) - Amen. Amen. And I think that that's a huge piece, is that joy requires courage.
Kimberly Spencer (00:41:41) - Absolutely.
Kimberly Spencer (00:41:42) - It does. When have you had to be, really, really brave in your business to get to the other side of joy?
Shannon Hernandez (00:41:53) - Well, this is relevant. ChatGPT has kind of, you know, put a real dent in things over here. And yes, it's a tool. It should be treated as a tool. Because here's what I know. If you don't know what your damn message is to start with, it ain't going to fucking help you.
Shannon Hernandez (00:42:15) - And if you don't have a strategy behind your messaging and your marketing, now you're just going to have content that isn't even tied to like your bigger goals and what you're doing. And I am just. Kimberly honestly, waiting for all of this shit to die down and for people to come back to their fucking senses. Because we have amazing sales calls and, you know, we don't do the urgency. We don't do the sign-on-the-spot when we have the follow-up. Oh, I just decided I don't need the help with the messaging. I'm going to use ChatGPT. And it's been hard. It's been a hard six months and it's taken a lot of courage. One, like first I was grieving, then I just got pissed off. I went through all the cycles, right? That took about four months of my life at the beginning of this year. And then just this month at the beginning of May, I was like, You know what? All these fuckers selling this as the solution, they've already come out how to write your book with it, how to do this with that, how to like to do your course with it.
Shannon Hernandez (00:43:18) - And I'm like, all these people are looking because they're about at the point now where they're soon going to know how to market it. They're still not going to know how to do a sale.
Kimberly Spencer (00:43:28) - They're still not going.
Shannon Hernandez (00:43:29) - To know how to get people to the thing and get them converted like there's a lot of gaps in there. So I sat down this weekend on a holiday weekend, and I spent probably ten hours writing some of the most epic fucking content I have ever written in my life. And as soon as I get off of here today, I'm posting one of them on Facebook.
Kimberly Spencer (00:43:50) - Oh my gosh.
Kimberly Spencer (00:43:51) - I can't wait to read it.
Shannon Hernandez (00:43:52) - Yeah, and it's going out to my newsletter and I am here to help people get results in their business. Whether you want to use ChatGPT or not, that is not the thing. But if you think one tool is going to be dropped into your lap and it's going to change everything and solve all your problems, you and I need to talk fast because you're going to waste a lot of time money, and energy.
Kimberly Spencer (00:44:16) - Amen. It's just like my husband with a knife versus me with a knife. Same tool. He wields that makes the most delicious meals. I am like slowly kind of maybe cutting up a carrot. Maybe I genuinely regularly delegate that because I know what my genius zone is. It ain't in the kitchen. But the tool is because he has a strategy. He is trained in how the ingredients go together. I know how to make a salad with a knife, but that's it. Like, that's all I got. I have one food strategy. But I think the same is true with ChatGPT. I was just on an eight-hour workshop with my mastermind on all the different ways to, leverage and use ChatGPT to create code copy and content. And I have used it a lot in my book not to write my book, but to organize my freaking ADHD thoughts into a streamlined process. And I was like, Oh, that's great because now I can pull this chapter that I had there and pop that there.
Kimberly Spencer (00:45:29) - So it gave me a better formula. Yeah, but it's not. It's a leverage tool. It's not it's not the strategy, nor is it truly what messaging is unless you are, really, really dialed in on what your messaging is like. We use ChatGPT a lot more for our podcasting agency simply because it's very, very we know that message. It's how to profit from guest podcasting. It's very streamlined here are the ways to reframe this, say this differently, and play with something like that. But the basis of it is because you have the strategy, you have to have that marketing strategy, or else you're just, and sometimes with ChatGPT, it's also a lot of generic content. It's like. How do you know? Here, let me give you the five steps that you could find on any YouTube, on anything. So it makes marketing super generic and thus it's no longer aligned with values.
Kimberly Spencer (00:46:34) - Yeah.
Shannon Hernandez (00:46:35) - I love this conversation because you know the content that I love to create at the end of the day and I can get lazy in my content, right? We all can.
Shannon Hernandez (00:46:47) - Let's. It is these 12 to 1500 in-depth Facebook and LinkedIn posts or articles. However, I can get it posted that tackles one problem and I'm able to say you think this is your problem, this is a symptom of your problem. Let's go deeper. What could the problems be and outline them for people? And it's it's thorough and you get an education whether you purchase from me ever or not. And if there was anything the last four months have taught me because it hasn't been that joyful on the business side with all the distractions of ChatGPT, it is that one. I'm the queen of organic marketing and I'm owning that shit. I own it. You don't like it, don't come to me then. Like it's fine, right? Number two, the depth at which an expert can lead you through a piece of content will never parallel what ChatGPT is going to spit out at you. Honestly. So you want to have better organic marketing and better conversion, learn how to write better content, and go deep with people.
Shannon Hernandez (00:48:01) - Right. And the third thing has been just reaching out to colleagues, like doing things like this and getting back in the flow and not being isolated right in my business. And those are like the joyful lessons that I'm carrying with me. And I decided that my new year is starting June 1st.
Kimberly Spencer (00:48:20) - You and I decided that together. Like, I was like, yeah, that's happening as well because the first six months were super challenging and I'm like, I'm so grateful. I'm so excited for June. Like, today's the last day we're recording the last day of May like this. It's just June is just and July and I'm so excited. June 1st. Happy New Year to us.
Shannon Hernandez (00:48:42) - Happy New Year, Kimberly.
Kimberly Spencer (00:48:44) - Happy New Year. Shannon.
Kimberly Spencer (00:48:47) - I think the most beautiful piece is like something because I get, really, really nerdy about language. And you said something that was just so powerful. Like if you want to get better at organic marketing, you need somebody who knows how to wheel that strategy.
Kimberly Spencer (00:49:00) - And the keyword is organic. Organic like that means we are organic beings as humans. That ain't a robot. Yeah, like if you want to attract people, it ain't happening with robot words.
Shannon Hernandez (00:49:20) - Yeah. Oh, I feel some good content coming on.
Kimberly Spencer (00:49:27) - Uh huh. It's just going to pour in through because that is what organic does. That's nature that flows through us and every single human. Yeah.
Shannon Hernandez (00:49:38) - The other thing someone told me these last four months and you know, I do take people's feedback, I do. And I listen and I mull it over. I'm kind of one of these deep thinker people, but at the end of the day, I know if it's true for me or not, when it settles in, right? Someone said to quit using the word organic. Nobody knows what it means. And I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? Anyone who is at the level of people that I'm talking to knows the difference between organic marketing and paid marketing.
Kimberly Spencer (00:50:06) - Like.
Shannon Hernandez (00:50:07) - No, no, it means like organic produce, he said. And I'm like, No, I'm not taking your advice.
Kimberly Spencer (00:50:17) - Not in. Yeah, not in marketing like. That's where we where we learn. And I think that it just goes to say that looking at whether it's your joy or your business or your life it comes down to cultivating it and creating it for you and how you want to rule. And that was I mean, that was the whole foundation of, of my business was I was like, I want to tap you into your sovereignty. I don't want to rule over you. When I say like, yes, queen I'm like queen to queen meeting right here. And I do not like to project your strategy onto somebody else. It's like how arrogant and judgmental. Like, is that when rather like extracting what somebody's success strategy with their marketing strategy is from the place of like their highest and best, most sovereign, amazing self through their authenticity, that's the juice right there.
Kimberly Spencer (00:51:17) - And that's what I've seen consistently make people multiple six, seven, eight figures is when they figure out that sweet sauce that is just what they are compared to what everyone else said they should be or should do. Yeah.
Shannon Hernandez (00:51:31) - Absolutely. And this is why we like to talk. Another part of the Joy field is we talk about a framework, our four-step joy-fueled organic marketing framework. And I think it's really important because if you're working with people who want you to be empowered and in your best power, they're not going to sell you a formula, a plan, a scripted thing. The correct word is a framework, a framework that you can tweak and make your own, and it's going to feel good to you and you're going to feel good rolling your message out again, if you rebrand or, you know, we all have to dig back in at different times and evolve. And I think that's one thing I want people and the listeners to think about is work with people who aren't going to say, You have to do it this way or this way is the only way.
Shannon Hernandez (00:52:25) - And there's still a lot of these people out there and they're taking a lot of money every day. And the sad part is I get the backlash of that because most of our people this is the widget where I wish I had a magic wand. They go and do all the flashy stuff that makes all the big promises First. They don't fucking get it.
Kimberly Spencer (00:52:43) - Half.
Shannon Hernandez (00:52:44) - Or even a third of what they said they would be getting with the formula, with the signature, whatever it's called, right? Like you're going to just do it this way and be a little robot. And then they come to us and they're like, Well, that didn't work and I need joy and I need money and I need to get my confidence back and, and and and my goal is like, what is it going to take for me to shift this paradigm where they're not wasting all this time and energy and losing their confidence? First, I want to see them in my space, get them moving, get them on, get them rock and roll, and send them off.
Kimberly Spencer (00:53:23) - Yeah.
Kimberly Spencer (00:53:24) - So you don't have to the hard doesn't have to hit so hard. It doesn't have to hurt so bad. Yeah. And I feel you because that's where I was in 2017. Like 2017. Grasping at straws new mom like actually not yet new mom like eight months pregnant grasping on shiny object syndrome. Because I just started to make money in my business and I was like, I need to grow this. I have a baby to support. And the marketing that I saw that was being used was very much like make this much and, you know, six months and look at how I did this in six months. And then if you don't come to my retreat, you're not you're going to miss that on the, on all the vibes of all like and that scarcity coming into play that plays into people's fears and limitations and. I think that if you believe in a joyful, abundant universe, which I truly do, and I know you do too, how do we cultivate and turn around the entire paradigm shift of marketing? And I know this is a, like, you know, juicy question, Don, but the entire industry of marketing of business from a scarcity to an abundant, because I think that's what's made ChatGPT so attractive, is because you can just have an abundance of content and you can just have this perception of abundance, but it's an illusion because it's not depth.
Kimberly Spencer (00:54:50) - Yeah. So how do we turn that Titanic around?
Shannon Hernandez (00:54:55) - Well, this is the question I wake up with every morning and in my little piece of the world because I learned as a teacher in Harlem of eighth graders many, many years ago, I can't change the world, but I can change my little piece of the world, right? My little piece people that come in contact with me. We commit our website and I'm going to read that in just a minute. Word for word, because I was very intentional about these commitments that I wrote with our rebrand that happened about a year and a half ago. And, you know, it's knowing your why, first of all, we have to wake up every single day and we have to know whether we have shitty months or good months in revenue, why we do what we do. And that's super important. And part of the work we do with people is what are your commitments, right? What are your damn commitments? And this comes from your why.
Shannon Hernandez (00:55:48) - And so we have a saying, a commitment on our website that says we are committed to changing the industry for good. We are committed to eliminating fear-based messaging, manipulative marketing, and high-pressure selling, replacing these harmful tactics with kind messaging, education-based marketing, and soulful selling. And I'm going to run a values campaign. It's one of the cool things that we work on with people, right? What are our values, what are our commitments what are we doing every day and why do we believe so much in this? And this is why I'm going to go back to those longer form 12 to 1500-word posts, because that is kind of messaging, the depth of knowledge. Each post is education training in and of itself. It's visibly showing what is possible when you decide to dive deep into messaging and show people your expertise. People want to hire experts, right? At the end of the day, we go to a doctor who's going to be able to solve the problem that we're experiencing.
Shannon Hernandez (00:56:58) - And the doctor is not promising shit that he can't promise. He or she can't promise. Not. Right. So this is like how I'm working so hard every day to change my little piece of the world modeling it and showing what's possible. When you don't use fear, scarcity, illusion, and all those other things that people are roped into because they want a fast, quick solution. And listen, y'all, sustainable business is not fast and quick.
Kimberly Spencer (00:57:32) - Yeah. And it's being in it for the long haul. Yeah. Like, I mean, you've been in it for 12 years, you said, and I've had my business for seven years and now we have the agency that's, that's my new baby. But like, there's a level of and I've been an entrepreneur since I was 19 years old, Like there is, there's a level of commitment and understanding to this journey. And sometimes like it, it takes those moments of joy to be able to understand, like, where are you finding that? How are you sourcing that? Are you getting enough of that? And.
Kimberly Spencer (00:58:06) - And then how do you get more? So, Shannon, I have loved our conversation. I'd love to dive into a little bit of rapid-fire if you are open.
Kimberly Spencer (00:58:16) - Okay, I'm gonna try.
Kimberly Spencer (00:58:18) - Okay. Who is your favorite female character in a book and or a movie and why?
Shannon Hernandez (00:58:24) - Well, you know, I don't watch movies. We establish that I do read books, but I'm going to talk maybe about more of an archetype. We binge-watch Survivor every night, two episodes. It's like my happy place. And I love all those women who show up and they give their best and they hardly ever win and they know it, and they start talking about it later in Survivor and they're like, Why are more women not winning in Survivor? And they're good to write, but they get overshadowed by guys. So that's my answer to that question.
Kimberly Spencer (00:58:59) - What? Nice. I haven't seen Survivor since the first season that it came out.
Shannon Hernandez (00:59:05) - It's amazing to watch its evolution.
Kimberly Spencer (00:59:07) - Oh, wow.
Kimberly Spencer (00:59:09) - What woman would you want to trade places with? Like being her body? Feel what she felt, See what she saw. Experience it dead or alive. Like when she was alive. What woman would that be Throughout history and time?
Shannon Hernandez (00:59:24) - Michelle Obama.
Kimberly Spencer (00:59:26) - Number one answer, number one answer here. Yep. Yeah, it was Oprah for most people. But yeah, Michelle Obama has taken the cake. Yeah.
Kimberly Spencer (00:59:34) - Beautiful.
Kimberly Spencer (00:59:36) - What is your morning routine? You mentioned the morning ritual of coffee and your meditation. Is there anything else to that morning routine that sets you up for a beautiful, joyful day?
Shannon Hernandez (00:59:45) - Coffee, meditation, journaling, workout, and a plated hot breakfast at the table before I start my day.
Kimberly Spencer (00:59:57) - Beautiful. What is your evening routine Beyond Survivor to set you up for success in the morning?
Shannon Hernandez (01:00:04) - Yeah, all devices are off by 7:30. My phone mainly. My computer is off when I leave my office, so my phone is off by 7:30 at night, TV off by 7:30. I have a cup of hot tea.
Shannon Hernandez (01:00:18) - I read some fiction, and I do some stretching. I'm in bed by 8:30, and asleep by nine.
Kimberly Spencer (01:00:25) - Oh my gosh. I wish I was in bed by 8:30.
Shannon Hernandez (01:00:28) - But I also wake up super early.
Kimberly Spencer (01:00:31) - How early do you wake up?
Shannon Hernandez (01:00:33) - I usually am up between 5:30 and 6.
Kimberly Spencer (01:00:35) - Thanks.
Shannon Hernandez (01:00:36) - I get a lot of sleep. 9 to 5 is asleep.
Kimberly Spencer (01:00:40) - Right?
Kimberly Spencer (01:00:40) - That's a significant amount of sleep. I've made a commitment over this past year with an infant growing into a toddler to get more sleep. I'm now up to six and a half, so we're getting there. It's. It's almost a seven. What is your favorite piece of advice that you ever received?
Shannon Hernandez (01:00:59) - Don't have a plan B.
Kimberly Spencer (01:01:02) - Nice.
Shannon Hernandez (01:01:02) - Have a plan B and a plan A. You'll always be thinking about plan B and you'll never go all in on plan A. That was my first business coach.
Kimberly Spencer (01:01:13) - Good advice. Very solid. And what do you define to be your kingdom?
Shannon Hernandez (01:01:21) - A world of people where every day we wake up and we say, what would bring me joy today? In service of being able to show up and spread more joy through our interactions each day.
Kimberly Spencer (01:01:36) - I like that kingdom I want to visit. Yeah. And lastly, how do you crown yourself?
Shannon Hernandez (01:01:43) - Even say my crown is choosing joy every single day. That's my crown. Because you can't go wrong when you put your joy first.
Kimberly Spencer (01:01:53) - But joy crown on a joy.
Kimberly Spencer (01:01:55) - Crown on.
Kimberly Spencer (01:01:56) - Com.
Kimberly Spencer (01:01:59) - Oh, Lord, I need no more business.
Kimberly Spencer (01:02:05) - Shannon, how do we work with you? How do we find you? How do we connect so that we can bring more joy to this business and this world?
Shannon Hernandez (01:02:13) - Yeah. If you want to check out the book, it's Practical Joy book which is super fun. There's a joy scavenger hunt waiting for you over there. And then I'm at Joyful Business Revolution. We talk all things organic marketing and a joy-fueled business and life. And that's a good place to start.
Kimberly Spencer (01:02:35) - It's a good place to start. Shannon, it has been a pleasure having you on the show for such a long time. I'm so glad we got to have you on as always. My fellow sovereigns on your throne.
Kimberly Spencer (01:02:49) - Mind your business because your reign is now. Thank you so much for tuning in today. If what you heard resonated with you, be sure to subscribe and start creating a bigger impact now by sharing this with a friend. Just by doing that one simple act of kindness, you are creating a royal ripple to support more people in their sovereignty. And if you're not already following me on social media, connect with me everywhere. At Crown yourself now for more inspiration. I am so excited to connect with you in the next episode and the meantime, go out there and create a body, business, and life that rules because today you crown yourself.
